Hi Martin, I collect some informations from my colleagues that I could share tomorrow. Regards Olivier Le 30/11/2017 à 10:44, Martin Winter a écrit :

Olivier,

We can all discuss this next tuesday. I think it is essential for everyone to educate themselves.

If you have additional information which you are allowed to share, then please feel free to send a link or the actual document(s).

The goal for next week is for everyone to discuss the issue - so that the TSC can make a formal decision the week after.

- Martin

On 30 Nov 2017, at 1:09, olivier.dugeon@orange.com wrote:

Hello Martin, all,

Thanks to share this information. I also got it internally.

From the internal presentation that I read, FRR is concern by this new LFN umbrella. Extract from the presentation:

"/The proposal has been approved by OPNFV, ODL, FD.IO, ONAP. PNDA, SNAS and FRR will join as well./"

What I could say, is that Orange is officially a Platinum member of ONAP and completely support this new initiative from the Linux Foundation. For us, it is also natural that __all__ Networking projects within the Linux Foundation will join this new umbrellawhich, of course, concern FRRdespite that it is a small project compared to ODL, ONAP and others.

So, we, at Orange, completely support this initiate.

Regards,

Olivier

Le 30/11/2017 à 05:05, Martin Winter a écrit :

...

All,

We got approached by the Linux Foundation about some new "Linux Foundation Networking Projects" Umbrella they are planning to set up to combine various network projects.

We (FRR) are a Linux Foundation project, but a lightweight one at this time, with basically only the assets held by the LF, so very unlike other projects which had formal companies set up with funding through the LF etc.

They are in the process to form a new "Linux Foundation Networking Projects" umbrella and the TSC was approached to see if we are interested to join this.

I expect the LF wants a decision by around mid December, so I want to discuss this at the next meeting.

At next weeks meeting (Dec 6) there is ONLY a discussion, no decision will be made. However, the TSC is likely to make a decision the week after.

Join the call to raise your opinions or just to listen on everyones thoughts.

From the original meeting invitation by the Linux Foundation to the TSC:

...

Hello Open Source Networking Project Developers:

The Linux Foundation is proud and humbled to host such a collection of critical and influential open source networking projects for enterprise, cloud, and carriers alike.  Over the past 5 years these projects have formed, grown, and matured into key infrastructure components on which tomorrow’s networking solutions are based.

Through this journey, members across various networking projects have requested alignment of the business governance and a greater opportunity for technical leverage and collaboration.  To that end, the Linux Foundation has embarked on a plan to provide a structure that allows for aligned governance & cross project collaboration while maintaining the technical independence of all projects.

To explain this exciting opportunity, answer questions, and get your feedback, we are hosting a pair of Webinars next week on Nov. 6th, and 7th.  If you’ve been hearing about “Harmonization”, and/or “Umbrella” activities and want to understand where we are with those initiatives, please join us for this Webinar.

If you want more details, then please listen to the recording of the call at https://zoom.us/recording/play/M3L8MOR27hz2zWpIbY5--8iTOsn0ASbBJvs--VtbhDX5S...

- Martin Winter

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Hello Russ, Just a point to clarify the new Linux foundation networking fund. Fees are not coming from project but from members. Members who wish join this new fund must pay fees to become a Linux Foundation member (Orange, 6Wind and Cumulus are already silver members). The amount of fees depends of the level (Platinum, Gold and Silver). Once done, to become part of this new fund you must pay an additional fees to this new fund. Again, amount of fees depends of the level (Platinum, Gold, Silver). So, in any case projects have to pay something, or I miss understanding the process. What it is unclear, is the way the new board of the Linux Foundation Networking fund will allocate funding to projects under this umbrella. And least, but not last, we will become a shark in the big pond and agree to protect the small fish ;-) Regards Olivier Le 05/12/2017 à 15:10, Russ White a écrit :

...

What I could say, is that Orange is officially a Platinum member of ONAP and completely support this new initiative from the Linux Foundation. For us, it is also natural that __all__ Networking projects within the Linux Foundation will join this new umbrella which, of course, concern FRR despite that it is a small project compared to ODL, ONAP and others.

Since I cannot attend the meeting today, I want to ask some questions that might be helpful here. In "joining this initiative," I assume this means any funding FRR receives would go completely to the Linux Foundation, and the LF would, in turn, determine how much funding to apportion to each project under this "umbrella" for future operations. The level of funding would, presumably, be tied to the "importance" of the project from the perspective of the LF.

If this is all correct, then I would argue FRR should _not_ join this "umbrella," as it would ultimately pull funding from FRR into other projects, essentially ending the community effort here. Even if what I've described above is only potential, rather than "actual right now," the reality is that the Linux Foundation has "other fish to fry" than making certain FRR is a successful project. The problem with being a small fish in a big pond is the big fish get all the attention, and hence all the money.

At this point, unless someone can explain how the Linux Foundation will put a legal structure in place to ensure FRR receives any funds earmarked specifically for the project, so funds will not be "redirected" into some other project that is deemed "more important," I would say FRR should not join this "umbrella."

😊

Russ

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Le 06/12/2017 à 13:46, Russ White a écrit :

...

What it is unclear, is the way the new board of the Linux Foundation Networking fund will allocate funding to projects under this umbrella.

Correct -- and this is exactly what disturbs me. Rather than allowing companies to supply resources to work on specific projects, this will force them to put their money into a large pool, and then "negotiate" to get their money pushed to the "right" project, hoping as little is "stripped" for other projects as possible. My guess is this will do exactly the opposite of what the Linux Foundation intends -- for instance, if I wanted work done on FRR, rather than giving money to the foundation, and then directing it be used on FRR, I would contract with a private company to do the work, avoiding the Linux Foundation entirely.

In other words, what the Linux foundation intends is to better fund the projects this board thinks is interesting, while allowing the rest of the projects in the "umbrella" to simply die off or somehow develop a community of coders and other support with reduced funding so the "big fish" are better funded. This is great for the projects the Foundation thinks is important, and might help unify the community around just a few projects. On the other hand, it stifles the creation of new and interesting projects, and probably sidelines the Foundation itself, turning funds away from the Foundation, and causing a lot of headaches down the road. As a specific instance, Open Switch is mentioned as an "important project." IMHO, Open Switch is poorly designed, and is the opposite of a "big fish" -- it's a "has been," and the community should move on. Inertia, on the other hand, is hard to stop, whether the project is a good idea or not.

IMHO, this is a bad idea, and I don't think FRR should participate in it.

...

And least, but not last, we will become a shark in the big pond and agree to protect the small fish ;-)

Can you, personally, protect all the "small fish?" And what about all the other sharks protecting their "small fish?" The end result is a lot more politics, and lot less work actually being done.

I understand the goal to reduce the breadth of projects, and being some coherence to the overall community. But is the Foundation the right place to be making commercial decisions about winners and losers?

Thanks Russ. It is a very good statement of the issues that are unsolved so we cannot embrace it.